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    Written work- men-women's roles

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    Written work- men-women's roles
    Message de peyton483 posté le 26-09-2010 à 10:53:51 (S | E | F)
    Bonjour à tous!

    Je dois faire une expression écrite sur le sujet : est-il plus facile aujourd'hui pour une femme de faire une activité masculine ou vice versa?

    Je pense avoir fait quelques fautes... Pourriez-vous y jeter un coup d'oeil? Merci beaucoup!


    1ère partie:

    For years, men and women’ roles both in the society and in the family have been strictly separated. Men were the breadwinners and the absent and domineering fathers whereas women managed the household and took care of the children. Those principles were part of the society at that time: even the government encouraged women to stay at home and not to work. Besides, boys and girls attended school separately and had already different duties: young girls were learned to sew and cook while boys studied sciences, literary and gym. As a result, deep prejudices have taken roots in people’s mind. Men had to be virile and their masculinity depended on success in an industrial, materialistic world. Similarly, it has taken a long time for women to accede to basically male jobs: piloting was forbidden for females and it was extremely rare to meet a woman doctor or politician. Then, when women were not at home, the majority had no responsibilities in their job, most of the time they worked in social, with children, sometimes in factories, and were low paid.


    Nowadays, the tendency is more to change/shift. Indeed, women still serve as teachers, nurses and social workers but they are also CEOs, soldiers, firefighters and secretaries of state: Condoleezza Rice, Hilary Clinton, Ségolène Royal, Margaret Thatcher and Angela Merkel are well-known on the political scene, Carol Bartz runs Yahoo and earns about 47 million dollars a year (more than her male peers), there is also Anne Lauvergeon, the French CEO of the company Areva. So, today the gender doesn’t seem to be an obstacle to a career and the success of some women shows that they can do what men typically did before. In this way, the time has come for a similar expansion of what men can do for a living. The raw numbers show that a change is already underway; the percentage of nurses who are men has doubled over the past 25 years (to about 6 percent of the field), and there are more guys teaching elementary school than ever before. Men are also more present for kids. For instance, in Sweden, since a revolutionary law passed giving an additional month of leave if the father took it, more than 80 percent of Swedish dads take four months off for the birth of a new child. And a full 41 percent of companies now formally encourage fathers to go on parental leave, up from only 2 percent in 1993. To put it in a nutshell, men are expected to work less and father more. In addition, not only habits seem to change but mentalities too: in Sweden, a man who refuses time at home with children faces questions from friends, family and colleagues.


    Nevertheless, there are still some prejudices in today’s world which makes hard for men and women to exchange their old roles. For instance, even if child care counts more men than before, the percentage is low, about 2 or 3 percent in Europe. The problem is that men still feel limited to a narrow range of acceptable masculine jobs. With regard to women, the difference of salary between the two sexes for the same employment and of equal diplomas remains around 20 percent. In addition, if some of them reach high level job, it is all the same rare comparing to men: we can quote some famous political or CEO women but the number of men who have important responsibilities is countless. Furthermore, female workers often suffer from discriminations or sexual harassment particularly in traditionally male professions. Lastly, at home, the average wife still does roughly double the housework of the average husband: the equivalent of two full workdays of additional chores each week. If both parents are working, women spend 400 percent more time with the kids.




    -------------------
    Modifié par peyton483 le 26-09-2010 17:46





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de peyton483, postée le 26-09-2010 à 10:56:29 (S | E)
    2ème partie:


    ...If both parents are working, women spend 400 percent more time with the kids. Meanwhile, the number of fatherless kids in America has nearly tripled since 1960, and the percentage of stay-at-home dads is still below 3 percent. The old roles are hard to shake.


    To conclude, we can say that shift has been done regarding what’s typically female and what’s typically male: the patriarchal family marked by the domineering father who earns money and by the housewife has given way to a modern family in which the woman and the man share the housework and take part to the education of the kids. At work, more and more women reach high level jobs whereas men only begin to be present in female professions. However, all things considered, I think that prejudices are still fixed in people’s mind, consciously or not: the decision of a woman to join the Army will always be commented, sometimes criticized, similarly a man who wants to be a nurse will be the subject of some gibes. Even if it is easier in today’s world to do something traditionally reserved for men or women than before, there are some obstacles that prevent the two sexes to feel and to be equal, there's still a gender gap. I am not advocating for a genderless society but in my opinion, we should rethink our society in order to avoid discriminations.



    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de lucile83, postée le 26-09-2010 à 11:24:20 (S | E)
    Hello,

    1er &
    For years, men and women’ roles both in the society and in the family have been strictly separated. Men were the breadwinners and the absent and domineering fathers whereas women managed the household and took care of the children too many 'and' in the sentence. Those principles were part of the society at that time: even the government encouraged women to stay at home and not to work. Besides, boys and girls attended school separately and had already different duties: young girls were learned to sew and cook while boys studied sciences, literary and gym familiar. As a result, deep prejudices have taken roots in people’s minds. Men had to be virile and their masculinity depended on ... success in an industrial, materialistic world. Similarly, it has taken a long time for women to accede to basically male jobs: piloting was forbidden for females and it was extremely rare to meet a woman doctor or politician. Then, when women were not at home, the majority had no responsibilities in their job, most of the time they worked in social c'est un adjectif,il manque un nom , with children, sometimes in factories, and were low paid.


    Je pense que vous aurez d'autres corrections encore; c'est un bon travail; j'ai vu quelques tournures à améliorer, mais je ne veux pas non plus trop bousculer votre texte.
    Best wishes!

    -------------------
    Modifié par lucile83 le 26-09-2010 11:33
    j'avais oublié "learned" !! comme quoi 2 paires d'yeux valent mieux qu'1.Merci gerondif!




    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de gerondif, postée le 26-09-2010 à 11:30:09 (S | E)
    Bonjour,

    fort bon niveau de texte pour une étudiante de 16 ans:

    For years, men and women (peut-être d'ailleurs cas possessif aux deux) roles both in the society and in the family have been strictly separated. Men were the breadwinners and the absent and domineering fathers whereas women managed the household and took care of the children. Those principles were part of the society at that time: even the government encouraged women to stay at home and not to work. Besides, boys and girls attended school separately and had already different duties: young girls were learned (to teach)to sew and cook while boys studied sciences, literary(adjectif) and gym. As a result, deep prejudices have taken (prétérit ?)roots in people’s mind. Men had to be virile and their masculinity depended on success in an industrial, materialistic world. Similarly, it has taken a long time for women to accede to basically male jobs: piloting was forbidden for females and it was extremely rare to meet a woman doctor or politician. Then, when women were not at home, the majority had no responsibilities in their jobs, most of the time they worked in social(adjectif esseulé), with children, sometimes in factories, and were low paid.


    Nowadays, the tendency is more to change/shift. Indeed, women still serve as teachers, nurses and social workers but they are also CEOs, soldiers, firefighters and secretaries of state: Condoleezza Rice, Hilary Clinton, Ségolène Royal, Margaret Thatcher and Angela Merkel are well-known on the political scene, Carol Bartz runs Yahoo and earns about 47 million dollars a year (more than her male peers), there is also Anne Lauvergeon, the French CEO of the Areva company. So, today the(supprimer) gender doesn’t seem to be an obstacle to a career and the success of some women shows that they can do what men typically did before. In this way, the time has come for a similar expansion of what men can do for a living. The raw numbers show that a change is already underway; the percentage of nurses who are men has doubled over the past 25 years (to about 6 percent of the field), and there are more guys teaching elementary school than ever before. Men are also more present for kids. For instance, in Sweden, since a revolutionary law passed giving an additional month of leave if the father took it, more than 80 percent of Swedish dads take four months off for the birth of a new child. And a full 41 percent of companies now formally encourage fathers to go on parental leave, up from only 2 percent in 1993. To put it in a nutshell, men are expected to work less and father more. In addition, not only habits seem to change but mentalities too: in Sweden, a man who refuses time at home with children faces questions from friends, family and colleagues.





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de gerondif, postée le 26-09-2010 à 11:38:24 (S | E)
    suite...

    Nevertheless, there are still some prejudices in today’s world which makes it hard for men and women to exchange their old roles. For instance, even if child care counts more men than before, the percentage is low, about 2 or 3 percent in Europe. The problem is that men still feel limited to a narrow range of acceptable masculine jobs. With regard to (me paraît complique, as for, as far as... are concerned)women, the difference of salary between the two sexes for the same employment(job?) and of equal diplomas remains around 20 percent. In addition, if some of them reach high level job, it is all the same rare comparing (participe passé)to men: we can quote some famous political or CEO women but the number of men who have important responsibilities is countless. Furthermore, female workers often suffer from discriminations or sexual harassment particularly in traditionally male professions. Lastly, at home, the average wife still does roughly double the housework of(j'aurais mis une structure comparative) the average husband: the equivalent of two full workdays of additional chores each week. If both parents are working, women spend 400 percent more time with the kids.


    Meanwhile, the number of fatherless kids in America has nearly tripled since 1960, and the percentage of stay-at-home dads is still below 3 percent. The old roles are hard to shake.


    To conclude, we can say that shift has been done (me paraît maladroit)regarding what’s typically female and what’s typically male: the patriarchal family marked by the domineering father who earns money and by the housewife has given way to a modern family in which the woman and the man share the housework and take part to the education of the kids. At work, more and more women reach high level jobs whereas men only begin to be present in female professions. However, all things considered, I think that prejudices are still fixed in people’s minds(pluriel), consciously or not: the decision of a woman to join the Army will always be commented, sometimes criticized, similarly a man who wants to be a nurse will be the subject of some gibes. Even if it is easier in today’s world to do something traditionally reserved for men or women than before, there are some obstacles that prevent the two sexes to(prevent from + gérondif) feel and to be equal, there's still a gender gap. I am not advocating for a genderless society but in my opinion, we should rethink our society in order to avoid discriminations.

    Agréable lecture que ce texte !
    (Dans mes livres de cours, Dad prend une majuscule... peut-être quand il est seul, Hello Dad, en fait le double clic le montre souvent en nom commun sans majuscule, donc ok,pas de problème)




    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de peyton483, postée le 26-09-2010 à 12:57:55 (S | E)
    Merci beaucoup pour vos réponses!


    Voici ce que je propose concernant certaines de vos remarques:

    -young girls were taught to sew and cook while boys studied sciences, literature and sport.

    -men had to be virile and their masculinity depended on their success in ...

    - the majority had no responsibilities in their job, most of the time they worked in social domain/they tackled social issues. (je ne suis pas sûre pour cette phrase)

    - For years, men’s and women’s roles...

    - deep prejudices have taken/ took roots in people's mind. Je ne sais pas quel temps il faut employer. D'un côté c'est une sorte de constat non?

    - AREVA

    - Raw numbers show that...

    - there are still some prejudices in today's world which make it hard for men and women...

    - pour "with regard to" mon dictionnaire indique "en ce qui concerne" ou "concernant" (il donne l'exemple: "with regard to this question), il propose aussi "As far as... concerned" comme vous dites.

    - Pareil je cherchais un synonyme de "job" et j'ai trouvé "employment" mais sinon je peux peut-être mettre "occupation"?

    - it is all the same rare compared to men

    - pour la phrase "Lastly, at home, the average wife still does roughly double the housework of the average husband" est-ce correct: "Lastly, at home, the average wife spends twice as much as the average husband on chores."?

    - take part in the education ...

    - there are some obstacles that prevent the two sexes from feeling and being equal.

    ... et je cherche toujours concernant les "and" en trop dans la deuxième phrase, et pour rendre moins maladroite la phrase "shift has been done". En fait je voulais dire "du chemin a été fait depuis..." mais je ne sais pas comment traduire cela, il doit y avoir une expression...

    -------------------
    Modifié par peyton483 le 26-09-2010 13:03



    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de lucile83, postée le 26-09-2010 à 13:33:55 (S | E)
    Hello,
    Ma suggestion:

    For years, men's and women’s roles in both society and family have been strictly separated. Men were the breadwinners as well as the absent and domineering fathers whereas women managed the household while taking care of the children.

    Hope this helps.

    -------------------
    Modifié par lucile83 le 26-09-2010 14:49
    gerondif! bien vu!ça m'apprendra à faire 6 choses à la fois




    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de gerondif, postée le 26-09-2010 à 13:44:15 (S | E)
    Hello, Lucile, vous êtes distraite aujourd'hui

    For years, men's and women’s roles in both society and family have been strictly separated. Men were the breadwinners as well as the absent and domineering fathers whereas women managed the household while tooking taking care of the children.




    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de peyton483, postée le 26-09-2010 à 14:15:45 (S | E)
    Ok cela me va très bien! merci beaucoup!

    Sinon ce que j'ai proposé plus haut est bon?

    -------------------
    Modifié par peyton483 le 26-09-2010 14:16





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de peyton483, postée le 26-09-2010 à 19:21:05 (S | E)
    J'ai aussi rajouté une idée à mon "essai". J'ai peur que ma dernière phrase ne soit mal formulée. Pouvez-vous me dire ce qu'il en est?

    Lastly, the main difference which distinguishes between men and women/ separates men from women, namely the capacity in pregnancy, seems to have been overcome: a few months ago, the first pregnant man gave birth to a girl in America. Isn’t it the most obvious evidence regarding the fact that it is easier for men to do something typically female in today’s world?

    De plus, vaut-il mieux utiliser dans ce cas l'expression "to distinguish between" ou "to separate ... from" ?


    Merci beaucoup!!



    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de gerondif, postée le 26-09-2010 à 21:24:48 (S | E)
    Bonsoir,
    pas grand chose à corriger dans vos remarques.

    -young girls were taught to sew and cook while boys studied sciences, literature and sport.

    -men had to be virile and their masculinity depended on their success in ...

    - the majority had no responsibilities in their jobs, most of the time they worked for social services/they tackled social issues. (je ne suis pas sûre pour cette phrase)

    - For years, men’s and women’s roles...

    - deep prejudices have taken/ took roots in people's mind. Je ne sais pas quel temps il faut employer. D'un côté c'est une sorte de constat non? les deux vont

    - AREVA à placer devant company, c'est tout.

    - Raw numbers show that...

    - there are still some prejudices in today's world which make it hard for men and women...

    - pour "with regard to" mon dictionnaire indique "en ce qui concerne" ou "concernant" (il donne l'exemple: "with regard to this question), il propose aussi "As far as... concerned" comme vous dites.

    - Pareil je cherchais un synonyme de "job" et j'ai trouvé "employment" mais sinon je peux peut-être mettre "occupation"? Pourquoi pas

    - it is all the same rare compared to men ne va pas.mettez nevertheless, neammoins ou however: it is however rare compared to men.

    - pour la phrase "Lastly, at home, the average wife still does roughly double the housework of the average husband" est-ce correct: "Lastly, at home, the average wife spends twice as much time as the average husband on chores."?

    - take part in the education ...

    - there are some obstacles that prevent the two sexes from feeling and being equal.

    Lastly, the main(biggest)(most obvious) difference between men fromand women(thank you May), namely the capacity for pregnancy (the ability to give birth), seems to have been overcome: a few months ago, the first pregnant man gave birth to a girl in America. Isn’t it the most obvious evidence regarding the fact that it is easier for men to do something typically female in today’s world?





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de peyton483, postée le 26-09-2010 à 22:00:01 (S | E)
    Merci beaucoup gerondif!
    J'ai fini mon devoir, enfin!

    Je tiens à tous vous remercier pour votre aide qui m'a été précieuse!
    C'est un plaisir de venir sur ce site!


    A bientôt



    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de intrepid34, postée le 26-09-2010 à 22:03:24 (S | E)
    Good evening!

    All I can say is "Wow"! What a great text! However, I would like to comment on just two points...

    1. When the possessor is plural as is the possessed the apostrophe normally comes after the S; Mens' and womens' roles.

    2. In the first correction by Lucile, I see ....take care of the children. Which, as far as I am concerned is okay. Then "taking care ......" which is good too. The word "tooking" in English does not exist.

    But again, all I can say is "Wow" not only from the english language point of view but the whole idea and maturity in the use of words.

    Good on you mate!
    Regards, Intrepid

    -------------------
    Modifié par lucile83 le 27-09-2010 08:14
    tooking was of course an error.




    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de peyton483, postée le 26-09-2010 à 23:14:34 (S | E)
    Merci beaucoup Intrepid34! Votre message me fait grand plaisir! A vrai dire j'ai beaucoup travaillé sur ce texte, j'espère que mes efforts seront payants!

    Encore une fois, merci à tous pour vos conseils!





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de gerondif, postée le 26-09-2010 à 23:38:51 (S | E)
    Hello,

    Unless grammar rules suddenly changed overnight, when a plural possessor is in the irregular form , we still use 's as if it were singular to have the s or z sound:

    The boys' toys, the girls' toys , the cooks' saucepans ok for these normal plurals, but:

    The men's toys, the women's toys, the children's toys, the people's toys

    same thing for the plural of abbreviations or figures:
    the 50's P.O.W.'s U.F.O.'s

    At least, that's what I was taught in my students' days.

    As intrepid 34 is a British native, I am surprised by this new rule !





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de may, postée le 27-09-2010 à 00:47:23 (S | E)
    Bonsoir

    Unless grammar rules suddenly changed overnight, when a plural possessor is in the irregular form , we still use 's as if it were singular to have the s or z sound:

    D'accord, Men or Women est déjà au pluriel. Alors men’s and women’s roles

    Et une petite touche:


    Lastly, the main(biggest)(most obvious) difference between men from and women

    Bonne nuit



    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de notrepere, postée le 27-09-2010 à 00:55:39 (S | E)
    Hello!

    Yes, Gerondif, didn't they tell you?

    Actually, Gerondif is correct. With irregular plurals like man/men, woman/women, child/children, you must add 's to form the possessive.

    Lien Internet


    Cordialement

    -------------------
    Modifié par notrepere le 27-09-2010 04:39
    I meant actually may, it was a 'typo'




    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de gerondif, postée le 27-09-2010 à 01:03:45 (S | E)
    Hello,
    Thank you notrepère, but I have a photo of a toilet door in Great Britain which says "mens", so anything can happen !
    Nowadays, they use men's or women's figures without any writing, at least it's safer !



    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de may, postée le 27-09-2010 à 01:30:23 (S | E)
    Hello gerondif and notrepere,

    What did I just say? and what's more? Since notrepere is American, I am not even sure about the word Acutally, Gerondif is correct.

    Regards,

    -------------------
    Modifié par lucile83 le 27-09-2010 08:22
    np said in his last message that it was a typo.
    -------------------
    Modifié par notrepere le 27-09-2010 04:39
    I meant actually may, it was a 'typo'





    Réponse: Written work- men-women's roles de notrepere, postée le 27-09-2010 à 04:50:52 (S | E)
    Hello May and Gerondif!

    May, your post wasn't there when I started my reply. So we are in agreement and Gerondif has been vindicated. Aren't you grateful, Gerondif?

    In everyday language, when the possessed word is not represented, it is common to see "mens" and "womens". For example, signs in clothing stores often lack the apostrophe. It is reassuring to know, however, that such a grammatical error could occur in the land of the Queen's English.

    Cordialement





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