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Message de arno79 posté le 12-10-2011 à 05:15:36 (S | E | F)
Je ne sais pas si c'est le bon endroit mais j'aimerais vous faire part des différences grammaticales que j'entends ici en Oklahoma (étudiant échange depuis 2 mois maintenant)
Premièrement aucune distinction entre "one time" and "once", pareil avec "two times" and "twice" (confirmée par ma mère d'accueil)
Utilisation de la double négation, par exemple il est courant d'entendre "I'm not doing nothing"
Utilisation de "me" au lieu de "I", par exemple "Me and Pierre are going there"
Traduction de "je viens de" toujours avec "just + prétérit", jamais entendu avec le present perfect. Par exemple "I just did that"
Différenciation du "tu" et du "vous". tu = you et vous = y'all
Peut-être que d'autres me viendront bientôt. Je vous livre cela dans l'unique but d'en discuter, de savoir votre avis sur ce "genre" d'anglais qui est parfois très perturbant au premier abord.
Modifié par lucile83 le 12-10-2011 07:38
Réponse: Différence/ écrit et oral de notrepere, postée le 12-10-2011 à 07:13:14 (S | E)
La langue familière ne se trouve pas dans les livres de grammaire. Tous les Américains ne parlent pas un bon anglais comme tous les Français ne parlent pas un bon français, non ? Yes, there are differences between the English that the French learn (chiefly British English) and American English. But there are regional differences too. Language usage is also influenced by economic status. The American English of the American South, in an economically depressed area is likely to differ from the English spoken in New York City, Los Angeles or Seattle. That is, poorer people tend to have less education, and language is often first learned at home. Parents who speak poor English tend to pass it on to their children generation after generation.
I would say that Oklahoma is quite a rarefied environment for someone learning English. It's likely to be quite different from the "proper" English you were taught in schools, especially if you are living in the country and not the city. If you ask them why they use the simple past tense rather than the present perfect, I can guarantee that you'll get a blank stare. I'd probably feel the same way in France. The "proper" French I learn in books is not generally what is spoken in everyday usage.
I hope I've answered your questions.
Réponse: Différence/ écrit et oral de gerondif, postée le 12-10-2011 à 17:35:26 (S | E)
I would agree with notrepere and the English you describe is not really that bad:
I heard in a song (killing me softly with words) "one time, two times", and after all, you will say "two or three times"...
When I was a foreign lecturer North of Manchester, England, I would hear: "it was me did it" or "He did this in front of me very eyes", and I was rather proud to learn these regional differences like "ta" for "thank you" and "tara" for "goodbye".
What are you all doing ? sounds rather innocuous to me.(but after watching the songs posted below, I can see its specificity now!)
I sometimes see the preterite with just:
"I did that a minute ago" turns into "I just did that" which replaces "I have just done that". But you understand what he means anyway.
with the "me", after all, we often say "He is taller than me" where "He is taller than I am" would be sounder grammar.
(I have more difficulties excusing the double negative but it is often heard ....)
Keep posting what you hear in Oklahoma !
Réponse: Différence/ écrit et oral de notrepere, postée le 12-10-2011 à 18:33:15 (S | E)
What are you all doing => Whatcha y'all doin'?
I think Dolly Parton has the best pronounced American Southern accent:
"Thank you... thank you so much, you're awfully nice and I sure appreciate it. This is a song that I picked out to have all my people in Sevier to help me sing on the album. So I'm gonna do a song Porter's called "Y'all come" and I want you to help me. And when I say "y'all come" you just say it to me on each chorus, OK?"
Now on the next verse, on the next verse I want'cha to sing real loud 'cos I don't want ev'rybody to think I'm only big mouth person who's ever come out of Sevier County.
Now, pay attention to how to correctly pronounce "y'all"
Compare Porter Wagoner's version, who's from Missouri (or Missoura if you're from there)
Modifié par notrepere le 14-10-2011 04:38
Thanks Travis. I think you could also argue that ya = you as in 'see ya' = ya'll, but since the dictionaries have it y'all and this matches the pronunciation more, I'll digress.
Réponse: Différence/ écrit et oral de traviskidd, postée le 13-10-2011 à 22:41:40 (S | E)
Y'all (note the correct position of the apostrophe) is a contraction of "you all" and is used to distinguish the plural sense of "you" from the singular. It is never used with one person (unlike "vous" in French); however the contraction can be used with two people (even though "all" is usually reserved for three or more). I believe there is a French analog to "y'all", namely "vous-autres", but I'm not sure exactly where and how it is used.
There are also other ways to refer to the plural "you" that are heard in different regions: "yous", "you guys" (can be used even with all girls), and I've even heard "yous guys".
(It is also interesting to compare "vous-autres" with the Spanish "vosotros" which is the plural (familiar) form of "you", considering also that "vos" is used instead of "tu" in Argentina.)
Modifié par traviskidd le 14-10-2011 19:37
Np, np (= No problem, notrepere ). I suppose ya+all=ya'll is plausible, but when I say "y'all", in my mind the A goes with "all". Also, I don't think anyone would say "Whatcha y'all", as the "cha" already means "you". I think "whatch'all" more accurately describes what is said, though I admit I've never seen that written.
Réponse: Différence/ écrit et oral de sherry48, postée le 13-10-2011 à 23:40:22 (S | E)
The oral (American) English phrase that bothers me most is using 'me and him' as a compound subject! Two of my own kids started saying this to their friends when they were teenagers, and they still say it. Or how about "these ones" ? Sherry
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